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my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

It seems that a lot of people have this problem when they're into someone but do not know if the feeling is mutual, and do not want to ask to avoid being seen as creepy. So it could be that two persons are into each other but each is afraid of saying that in case it is not returned, and it leads to lost opportunities to both.

But I have a partial solution to that problem: t.me/MutualSympathyBot

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my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

It is only compatible with telegram, but maybe I'll be able to add fediverse integration.

The idea is simple: tell the bot who you're into, and if the other person tells the bot about you, you both get notifications about that. And if your feelings are not mutual, nobody will know about these, and nobody will think you're creepy!

(Source code: github.com/inga-lovinde/Mutual )

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (3/3) 

And of course this project could use some visibility! Because the more people know about it, the higher the probability that person you're into also will know about it and will use it. Because personally giving someone the link to the bot may defeat its purpose by making your feelings known already.

my pet project, compatibility/privacy warning 

Turns out Telegram changed a lot since I first created this bot, and now there are new privacy toggles in Telegram.

Unfortunately, if either of you have set their "Forwarded messages" toggle to "Nobody" or "Only contacts", and did not add my bot to the list of exceptions, it won't work because it will have no way of knowing that person's user id, and no way to identify that person.

image description for the previous post (long) 

Screenshot from the miro board, it is titled "Idea canvas (Team 4)"

"Letting people know if their feelings are mutual"

Idea: Who is it for? Who are the end users?

Shy or neurodivergent people who want to know if their crushes like them back.

Professionals who want to know if their contacts are interested in their projects

Idea: What painpoints does it solve?

Frustration and embarrassment associated with failed confessions.
Discomfort caused by unwanted advances.

Idea: Describe your idea; What are the features? How does it work?

1. People register on the platform and link their social network accounts.

2. People enter their crushes social network accounts, and register their sympathy.

3. If the sympathy is mutual, they both get notified.

4. Additionally they get notified if there are other people they're both have mutual feelings to

Technology: How is web3 and decentralization technology applied?

Every user gets a SSI.
They can publish their public keys in their social networks, and store information about their crushes by their crushes' public keys.
The only thing service stores for unrequited crushes is an ECDH shared key that provides full privacy

Technology: What are the most critical assumptions?

Privacy.
Nobody should be able to link different social network accounts of the same person together.
Nobody (including the company) should be able to extract information about other person's crushes.
Privacy claims should be verifiable / auditable.

Benefits: What are the benefits for your customers?

They no longer have to risk misreading the situation and making confessions to people who do not return the feelings.

Additionally, they no longer get unwanted advances from other people.

Benefits: What does the business case look like? How can we monetise it?

This should not be monetized.
But it is cheap to maintain, provides a public good, increases the overall popularity of SSIs, and increases the public image of the company.

[development] pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into 

Going to make a new version of that thing that wouldn't require a lot of trust (as the current thing does) and would integrate with fedi and other social media.

Working title: "blahaj-in-the-middle".

Just in case somebody has any picture relevant to that title lying around, I would be very grateful.

(I'm imagining blahaj lying on their back and two catpeople lying to the both sides of it and whispering something to their ears. Maybe I should try to compose such a picture myself from some existing pictures and my mad MS Paint skills... :blobcatthinking:)

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (3/3) 

@IngaLovinde this is a super cool idea, honestly

one thing that jumps out to me immediately though is that there's not really a good way with the current implementation to ensure that someone with access to the DB can't figure out who's into who

I mean, it's debatable whether that's a big deal or not, but it can probably be fixed with a bit of crypto. would be cool providing a potential solution if you're interested, otherwise it's still a neat side project

re: my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (3/3) 

@clarfonthey I was already given a link to one, do you have this one in mind? computing.surrey.ac.uk/persona
I'm interested to learn about other potential solutions, too!

But unfortunately I don't think any cryptographic solution can be applied here?

Ultimately the service receives a Telegram message from one user containing a mention of another, and a service maintainer can trivially simulate it, so no matter what kind of cryptography is used, service maintainer will always be able to learn if A is into B.

So I don't think any server-side precautions against an evil admin can be taken here?
Of course client-side precautions are possible, with everybody having their own keypair, and using these keys to encrypt everything; but then it will not be very usable, and the idea was to make this thing as friction-free as possible.

re: my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (3/3) 

@IngaLovinde oh, right, it's a telegram bot

for some reason I was thinking that it'd be some kind of web app, which may be more doable since you could compute the values to store, rather than just sending messages.

I actually thought more about it and realised there's a lot more caveats to a protocol for it than I realised, and I'm not sure if there's anything besides holomorphic encryption (we haven't quite figured it out yet) that could actually work

re: my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (3/3) 

@clarfonthey But even with webapp no encryption in the world would prevent admin from simply simulating users' requests on a snapshot of webapp+DB and making note whether match notification gets generated or not?

Unless every user has their own keypair (and known public keys of people they're into), in which case some end-to-end encryption can probably be figured out.

re: my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (3/3) 

@IngaLovinde yeah, the ideas I had were something along the lines of keeping keys for users and doing all the encryption in the browser. sure, it's prone to just changing the page to collect data instead, or users literally just saying who they're into (much more likely), but, 🀷

it's an interesting problem to think about solving, for sure

re: my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (3/3) 

@clarfonthey Even if all the encryption is done in the browser and the page is provably unmodified, still nothing prevents server from doing MITM, unless users have received public keys of people who they're into via some other channels?

re: my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (3/3) 

@IngaLovinde I mean, yeah

one problem at a time :p

re: my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (3/3) 

@clarfonthey just that it doesn't make sense to overcomplicate things when it is not going to help with that threat model anyway :)

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@IngaLovinde this reminds me of my pet project consent.rocks (which I haven’t worked on in too long while it’s sadly not yet in a usable state)

It will allow people to fill out a list of activities that they may want to do with others and then send them a link so they can fill out the same list. Only mutual interests will be shown to anyone.

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@dysphoricunicorn Sounds really interesting! I think that solves the next step of the problem in question - now when two people know that they're into each other, they may find the common activities :)

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@IngaLovinde btw there exists a way to compute this with 5 playing cards in section 4 of this paper: computing.surrey.ac.uk/persona

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@bootie_fringe That's very interesting!

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@IngaLovinde also much safer than telegram (if you can meet in person)

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@bootie_fringe and if mutual willingness to meet in person is not what you're trying to compute.

Also it's less scalable: say, every person has 10 people they talk to; doing the cards protocol would require N*5 IRL meetings, while doing it over Telegram will require none.

But of course if people are already meeting IRL the card protocol is better, and does not require trust in third-party services :)

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@IngaLovinde you could probably do the card thing over TCP/IP some way but I guess since you are using telegram anyway you probably don't care that much about the privacy implications

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@IngaLovinde I just wanted to make you aware of the card thing because I think its a nice trick (and a variant of it also works for 3 people, so you could agree on a threesome that way, lol)

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@bootie_fringe yes, it's an interesting trick.

My thing also does threesomes btw (it could do larger things in theory, but I made it to be extremely scalable and DB architecture won't let me find larger loops efficiently)

lol lewd 

@IngaLovinde

> My thing also does threesomes

i'm not complaining, but that is a weird way to phrase it :blobwink: :bloblewd:

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@bootie_fringe Actually I just remembered the main point of my thing.

Card protocol is good and fine when both persons are _already_ thinking about a date. But approaching someone with a proposal to do the cards thing, if they're not into you, could be just as awkward as approaching them with a proposal to go for a date.

While my thing, if made sufficiently popular, does not require approaching anybody.

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@IngaLovinde I was thinking about using the card thing for speed dating to abolish any central computation of who matches & also speed it up

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@bootie_fringe these are different scenarios then :)

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@IngaLovinde well, your thing does requires knowing the others phone number if I am not mistaken

like, kinda awkward?

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@bootie_fringe my thing does not require knowing other person's phone number.

Telegram requires it, but my thing never gets it from Telegram.

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@IngaLovinde the point is that it may already be kinda awkward to ask for the number in the first place

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@IngaLovinde or creepy if you manage to find it without asking

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@bootie_fringe What do you mean? My thing does not ask for a phone number.

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@bootie_fringe (also I'm going to implement something like that for fediverse one day)

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@IngaLovinde would that mean having a crush db for all the users that could eventually … leak?

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@bootie_fringe Unfortunately, yes. As I have said, my thing requires people to trust it.

I'm open to suggestions btw! Here is its source code: github.com/inga-lovinde/Mutual

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@IngaLovinde GitHub should drop ICE

(but thanks, I'll take a look)

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@IngaLovinde

the code:

> You have registered too many sympathies; try removing some.

shy ppl with lots of crushes:

;_;

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@IngaLovinde why is the limit so low (10)?

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@bootie_fringe that's a limit on current non-mutual sympathies, to prevent an user from brute-forcing others' sympathies towards them.

What would be the use case for having it larger than 10?

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@IngaLovinde people who would fuck most of their friends at least once if the mood is right (i.e. me) but are too shy to say it (i.e. not me, but I know a few of those)

they also need to have more than 10 friends on telegram (i.e. not me, as I have none)

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@bootie_fringe but one would think that if some of their friends think that way, that would make a sympathy mutual, and it would not count towards that limit.

On the other hand if a lot of these sympathies are non-mutual, it would basically mean that A feelings towards B are no longer a secret because B can always brute-force them.

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my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@IngaLovinde yeah but you have to have that person as your telegram contact in the first place? look I am all for stuff that helps shy ppl to hook up maybe I am overestimating how serious that is

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@bootie_fringe but you don't have to know their phone number for that. You could just know their username. Or you could just talk to them in some group chat or something. Knowing a phone number won't help there in any way.

(But unfortunately for this bot, Telegram recently implemented new privacy controls which allows one to prevent people from sharing their contact, and this will break the bot)

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@IngaLovinde I wanted to build something like that since ... a looong time, never got around to do it x)

Great job! :)

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@IngaLovinde This is an excellent idea! I've thought such a bot would be so helpful.

Might it be coming to the fediverse, as you've suggested could happen?

re: my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@porsupah another thing on fediverse happened a few weeks after that post, and I kinda lost interest after that (and almost lost interest in fediverse), sorry!

re: my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@IngaLovinde Ahh! Poop.

Still, glad to see you're still with us. ^_^

re: my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@porsupah thank you!

my pet project, how to avoid being creepy towards someone you're into, :boost_ok: (1/2) 

@IngaLovinde this sounds great!!!

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